Amyraldism calmly considered
Posted by simon peter sutherland in "Calvinism", Theology on October 25, 2024
Over the years I have expressed my deepest concerns relating to a doctrine known as ‘Limited Atonement’. This 5 Point Calvinist theory claims that Jesus Christ did not die for all mankind but only for the elect. If Christ died for all mankind (they say) then no one should be in hell for whom Christ died, thus He didn’t die for all, He died only for those whom the Father had given Him. Believing that Christ died for all (they say) is universalism.
I disagree with these claims entirely. There is no Scriptural proof that the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ on the cross automatically saves anyone. No one is saved by the cross of Christ alone since believers are saved by grace alone through faith (Ephesians 2: 8) so faith is the means by which we are saved and there is no Scriptural evidence that Jesus purchased our faith at the cross.
A person can argue that faith or salvation is a gift of God (ibid) and I wouldn’t disagree but there is no suggestion that faith or salvation (as a gift) is limited only to those whom God has predestined and chosen. For me, this claim is more systematic than Scriptural and retains some serious Biblical inconsistencies. For me, and for J. C. Ryle, the doctrine of Limited Atonement is inconsistent with the Bible and some theologians who propagate it are more systematic than the Bible they represent. Yet many proponents of the ‘Calvinist’ teaching actually reverse the truth by claiming that those who don’t believe in the 5 Point Calvinist interpretation of ‘Limited Atonement’ are the ones who are inconsistent. This is untrue. For me, and for many Christians, the New Testament is extremely clear that Christ died for all mankind and to deny that fact can be dangerous. The reason I say this is because a person is putting argumentation above Scripture, thus leaving room for any persuasive argument to be believed, even if it contradicts Scripture. Yet many 5 Point Calvinists claim that their beliefs are the pure teachings of Scripture and they wait patiently for others to catch up and be persuaded.
Obviously I’m not one of those who have been persuaded and if a doctrine cannot be consistently proven by all Scripture, I’m not obligated to believe it. So for me, I have reached an opposite conclusion to the 5 Points of Calvinism. For me, I am actually very uncertain if 5 Point Calvinism is even accurate to the teachings of the man it is named after. There are times when I find it very doubtful that Calvin ever taught the same version of limited atonement that modern 5 point Calvinists teach? I haven’t found the majority of 16th century reformers affirming it either.
For me, Calvinism (as it is nicknamed today) is little more than Owenism. By “Owenism” I am referring to puritan John Owen (1616-1683). A man who, in 1648 published a book called “The Death of Death in the Death of Christ”. In this book Owen affirms the doctrine of Limited Atonement in no uncertain terms. The book blends in perfectly with the doctrines affirmed in England during the times of the Westminster Confession of Faith. Like the Westminster Confession, Owens theology offers no salvation for the none elect, they are utterly doomed. Born to be damned and to enter hell for disbelief in a Saviour who did not die for them to begin with.
It is an awfully distasteful doctrine and one that should be spat out.
Having read Calvin, and studied many other 16th reformers, I have been (over the past few years) somewhat pleasantly surprised to learn of the 17th century man named Moses Amyraut (1596-1664) a French reformed theologian who noticed the inconsistencies of Calvinist theology and propagated moderations. Like Richard Baxter, John Bunyan and Richard Horne, the believer can be blessed by the challenges presented by Moses Amyraut who find themselves troubled when ‘Calvinists’ deny the exceedingly clear Biblical statements that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
Amyraut challenged Calvinians and presented a view that is much more conceivable than Limited Atonement and taught that Christ did in fact die for the whole world but God in His foreknowledge knew those who would believe in Jesus Christ and elected them based upon that foreknowledge. This is entirely consistent with Romans 8: 29 “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,”. Note that St Paul presents foreknowledge prior to predestination. Thus preserving the doctrine of unconditional election while not excluding anyone from receiving Christ.
For me, if Christ died only for the elect the great commission is null and void and the gospel should not be preached or offered to “every creature” (Mark 16: 15) and Acts 17: 30-31 makes no sense. Why would God command all men to repent (as Paul proclaimed in Athens) if man was incapable of doing so because he is not elect? Why would the great commission be offered to every creature if salvation was not available for every creature?
The logical conclusion is that salvation is offered to all because it is available for all and I am very pleased to know that reformed theology does not exclusively belong to the limited atoners. Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Arminians, all fit into this broad theology labelled ‘Reformed’.
I remain convinced that if any person merely read the Bible for itself, without feeling pressured to read other books and listen to preachers rhetoric, no one would ever discover such a harsh and uncaring doctrine as Limited Atonement.
Did Martin Luther believe in Limited Atonement?
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Reform, Theology on October 15, 2024
On 31st October 2024, it will be Reformation Day. This event is a public holiday in 5 states in Germany but in the UK Reformation Day is largely forgotten and replaced with Halloween. With this in mind I’m minded to write something about it.
For those who may not know Reformation Day is an anniversary of the day (October 31, 1517) when Martin Luther (1483-1546) nailed his ninety five thesis to the church door in Wittenberg. Back then the church was like our church is today, apostate and in desperate need of reform. Priests and Popes were corrupting the church and few had the nerve to stand up to them. But Luther, God bless him, stood strong and famously nailed his thesis to the church door and the sound of his hammer echoed through the chambers of the establishment.
Recently I watched the 2003 film Luther starring Joseph Fiennes and it has brought back a lot of fond memories for me. That film was very influential when I first began studying Luther and reading his books and autobiographies about him. I’d recommend people view that film and read his books rather than waste their time with all that Halloween nonsense.
But as the saying goes ‘nobody’s perfect’ and the same can be said for Luther. For me Martin was far from perfect, and that’s the point. Reformers do not need to be perfect humans they just need to have faith and believe the Bible. There are times when I really agree with Luther and think that he has been misrepresented by many people. For me, a great deal of these misunderstandings stem from cherry picking sections of Luther quotes without really considering the possibility that he might have changed his mind later on.
While in discussion recently it came up of how Luther and Calvin would have agreed with each other over doctrine and this brings me to the main point of this article. My discussion was in response to the Calvinistic interpretation of Predestination which logically affirms the doctrine of Limited Atonement. As always I make my point that there are differences of opinion concerning the meaning of Predestination and the 16th century reformers didn’t all agree with the Calvinism of that century. For me, Calvin is a little like Luther sometimes in that he might have changed his mind at times. For me, Calvin reads as though he did believe in Limited Atonement and certainly Predestination, while other times he appears to believe that Christ died for all mankind. These views can be found in Calvin’s Commentaries.
Yet there are times, (certainly in Luther’s books) where Martin appears to believe that Christ died for all, yet other times he implies all means the elect? This would imply that he didn’t believe Christ died for all, so there’s certainly conflict in understanding his position. This brings me to the answer of my own title: Did Martin Luther believe in Limited Atonement? Well, the answer is yes and no, I don’t think he did and other times I’m not so sure, here’s why.
While at Wittenburg in 1515, Martin Luther began to lecture from the New Testament and from Paul’s epistle to the Romans. It was during Luther’s studies for these lectures that he famously found that salvation is by grace alone and through faith.
In the popular modern versions of Luther’s commentary on Romans, such as J. Theodore Mueller’s translation, certain beliefs and passages have been omitted from the publications to avoid confusion with Luther’s actual beliefs. For, his beliefs often changed and improved with his knowledge of scripture. In his lectures on Romans and 9: 20-21 Luther says this:
“God will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2: 4), and he gave his Son for us men, and he created man for the sake of eternal life. And likewise: Everything is there for man’s sake and he is there for God’s sake in order that he may enjoy him, etc. But this objection {to God’s sovereignty in salvation} and others like it can be just as easily be refuted as the first one: because all these sayings must be understood only with respect to the elect, as the apostle says in 2 Timothy 2: 10, “All for the elect.” Christ did not die for absolutely all, for he says: “This is my blood which is shed for you” (Luke 22: 20) and “for many” (Mark 14: 24) – he did not say: for all- “to the remission of sins” (Matthew 26: 28) (Martin Luther, Lectures on Romans, translated and edited by Wilhelm Pauck. Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1961. P 252)
The question remains for my readers: Did Luther believe in Limited Atonement or did he believe Jesus died for all mankind? Decide for yourselves. I think he may have originally believed in Limited Atonement (in 1515) and changed his mind later on.
Has the third Book of Mary Jones been found?
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Mary Jones, The Welsh Bible on October 9, 2024
On September 21, the original Mary Jones Bible was displayed in Bala (Wales) for an anniversary event. I visited the exhibition and that Bible is one of three which Thomas Charles gave to Mary Jones on her famous walk in 1800.
For those who may not know, the Bible I’m referring to is a Welsh translation dating to 1799 and was once owned by Mary Jones (1784-1864). Mary’s story is legendary and tells how she saved pennies and farthings for six years and walked 26 miles to buy herself a Bible in her heart language. Amazingly this Bible was collected in the 19th century and is still preserved and contains her actual handwriting in English. These are the words she wrote in her Bible;
“Mary Jones was
born 16th December 1784
I bought this in the 16th year
of my age. I am daughter
of Jacob Jones and Mary Jones
his wife. The Lord May
give me grace today.
Mary Jones his the True
owner of this Bible
Bought in the Year
1800 Age 16”
Mary’s English is slightly broken in this text and demonstrates that her choice of language (at the time of writing) was in fact English. She never wrote this account in Welsh. This could be due to the fact that in those centuries the Welsh language was being suppressed and children were subject to a punishment known as the “Welsh Not”. This meant that any child who spoke Welsh in school was at risk of being beaten. It’s horrific! However there is no evidence that Mary Jones was ever subject to the “Welsh Not” since she was educated in schools run by Thomas Charles, who was an advocate of both English and Welsh languages. Bala at the time of Mary Jones was bilingual. So on the basis of that we do not need to assume that the third Book of Mary Jones had to be in Welsh. This is where the rubber hits the road.
Some think that Mary Jones only got one Bible on her trip to Bala, others claim she only got two, yet Mary Jones herself said she actually attained three Books from Thomas Charles. In her own words Mary put her story this way;
“I came to Bala and trembling, knocked on the door of Mr Charles’ house. I asked for Mr Charles and was told he was in his study at the back of the house. I was allowed to go to him and he told me the Bibles had not arrived. I started to cry because I did not know where to stay. He sent me to an old servant of his who had a house at the bottom of the garden, until the Bibles came. When they came, Mr Charles gave me three for the money that is for the price of one.” (The World of Mary Jones by Sara Eade. P. 14)
This account was written out in 1864 by Lizzie Rowlands (nee Jones) who interviewed Mary Jones when she was older. I believe the account is accurate since Mary’s use of language (in this text and the writing in her Bible) blend perfectly and you can hear her choice of wording within both accounts.
Other versions of the story, including the 1882 book “The Story of Mary Jones and her Bible” only mention one Bible but they are based upon much later traditions, and are often fictionalised versions aimed for Sunday schools. They cannot be taken as literal history. It is Mary’s own testimony which should be the basis for historical fact.
Two of these Bibles have been officially accounted for and I believe we can now compliment her story with the discovery of a third Book.
This third Book I believe is a 1787 Book of Common Prayer and Psalms twice signed by Mary Jones. Research has been done and the signatures match to those in her Bible.
But why would the third Book be a Book of Common Prayer and Psalms rather than just a standard Welsh Bible? Well, it should be noted that 18th century Bibles were not like the Bibles of today. In our tradition we open the Bible at Genesis and close it with Revelation, but the bound Bibles Mary Jones knew opened with the Book of Common Prayer, and contained the Apocrypha and also an extra version of the Psalms translated by Edmund Prys. So it is probable that Mary Jones would have viewed the Book of Common Prayer as a volume of the Bible, or at least a part of the bound versions she knew. After all the 1717 Bible she learned to read from at the farmhouse opens with the Book of Common Prayer and contains an extra version of the Psalms. I know this because I have viewed and handled it. I’ve handled them all.
Today, the original 1799 Mary Jones Bible is in Cambridge, while the second Bible is in Aberystwyth and the third has been a mystery since the 19th century. So the question remains: Has the third Book of Mary Jones been found?
Yes, I believe it has been found and characteristics match the Bible she owned. Likewise, it makes sense to me that Mary Jones would have had an English Book of Common Prayer since she loved the Psalms and Thomas Charles was an advocate of both Welsh and English languages and when Mary arrived in Bala (to buy a Bible) Mr Charles is said to have given her one of his own copies. Being an ex Church of England minister Mr Charles would have had a Book of Common Prayer in English and he was certainly an advocate of it, so for me, it seems like this part of the story contains an element of truth though it has been mixed up a little in the fictional versions. Likewise it is a fact that a majority of Bibles from the late 1600’s through to the establishment of the British and Foreign Bible Society in 1804 contained the Book of Common Prayer and Psalms. So for Mary Jones, she wouldn’t have known anything else so it would have been seen as part of the collected volume.
It seems very fitting to me that she would have had an English Book of Common Prayer and Psalms since Mary Jones loved them both.
Hymn stories: All Hail the Power of Jesus’ Name
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Hymns, Theology on October 3, 2024
Way back in 1838 a railway man James Ellor (1819-1899) brought his local choir a tune. This was called “Diadem” and he had written the tune to be sung with the Edward Perronet hymn “All Hail the Power of Jesus’ Name”.
James Ellor was born in a place called Droylsden in Manchester and was choirmaster at his local Methodist Wesleyan Chapel and is also said to have worked in the hat industry.
Over the last few months I have been fascinated by this great old hymn and have sought to find the location where the hymn tune of this great hymn was first sung. Lo and behold I have found it. After looking through old maps and studying the location and all the related churches in the area I have narrowed the original location down to a site on Market St, Droylsden.
Today the original building is long gone but back in the 1830’s a chapel stood near and in between the location where a Co-operative Hall Wharf (dating to 1876) and an industrial building (dating to 1911) now stand. Thankfully, a local church meet very close to precise location so someone is still doing the Lords work there and there’s a tram stop near should anyone wish to visit. After all it is a very special hymn and should never be forgotten.
Today a number of versions of the hymn continue to be sung, and especially in America. This seems very fitting since James Ellor emigrated to America in 1843 where he returned to his trade a hat maker. So let us remember the words of this great hymn from the Methodist Hymn Book,
”Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall, And shout in universal song The crowned Lord of all.
O that with yonder sacred throng We at His feet may fall, Join in the everlasting song, And crown Him Lord of all!”
I think all Christians everywhere, can agree with those great words. I know I can.
Was Saint Paul shipwrecked on Kefalonia?
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Bible translation, Biblical archaeology, Documentaries on August 9, 2024
In my new documentary I close the episode with a reference to the shipwreck of Paul on the island of Melite. The central theme of the documentary focuses upon the life and ministry of Saint Titus on Crete and concludes with a reference to the epic journey of Paul who was shipwrecked on his way to Rome. It’s a passionate and dynamic narrative to say the least.
I refer to the island as Melite for a distinct reason, this is the greek word Luke uses in Acts 28: 1.
Most English Bibles translate Melite as “Malta“, however for textual and geographical reasons I do not believe the translations are correct here. Malta is way off the map for the actual island Luke was writing about and is not in the Adriatic sea as Luke clearly states it was in Acts 27: 27.
However many people believe Malta is the island where Paul was shipwrecked and I have visited St Paul’s Bay myself and the little church is one of my favourite places on earth. However, over recent years and after studying old maps I have come to conclude that Malta is not the location of Acts 28 and have narrowed down two or three possible locations where the shipwreck could have taken place.
In a recent article published by Eric Metaxas it is claimed that “Paul was shipwrecked on Kefalonia, not Malta” and evidences are given to support that claim. I am familiar with the opinions that are expressed in the article and locals on Kefalonia claim Paul was shipwrecked at Pessada. This is the location in the closing scene of my film and in the photo above. It should be noted there are archaeological remains present at that place which cannot be denied.
But is it true? Was Saint Paul shipwrecked on Kefalonia? It would be great if it is true, it’s a beautiful island with a wealth of Christian history. However, it should be pointed out that if it is true and Paul was not shipwrecked on Malta, serious concerns are raised regarding the accuracy of English Bibles.
But did it really happen this way? Was Paul really shipwrecked on Cephalonia, or someplace else?
This theme has been a long endeavour for me since I first visited Malta in 2005 and I hope to explore this topic in greater detail in the future. Having visited the location of Pessada, Kefalonia, the argument is extremely stimulating and I am continuing my research.
I have written my first hymn
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Hymns, Music, Theology on July 30, 2024
For many years I have been a great lover of wonderful old hymns. Guide Me O, Thou Great Jehovah, The Day Thou Gavest, Lord, is ended and How Great Thou Art. All of these hymns have inspired me greatly throughout my life and I have been a worship leader a number of times and sung many great Christian worship songs.
Last year I read Keith and Kristyn Getty’s book “Sing” and it’s all about Christian music and the value of hymn writing. I was very motivated by this and while revisiting the Greek Island of Kos I wrote my first hymn.
Kos is very important to me as a Christian and I’ve made documentaries about it and explored St. Paul’s connection to the island (Acts 21: 1). It has been a long journey and this has contributed to my writing this song.
The hymn is not presently released but my wife and I have sung it. Jenny has been very instrumental in helping me make my documentaries and I’m very thankful to her and I have faith to believe that the Lord has given me this song as a nice gift and He will use it to His own glory and praise.
I believe the hymn will one day be a blessing to Christian’s everywhere, regardless of denomination or circumstances.
“In Search of Saint Titus and Paul on Crete”
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Biblical archaeology, Documentaries on June 26, 2024
Great news, my long awaited documentary “In Search of Saint Titus and Paul on Crete” is now available on YouTube.
In this documentary I explore Paul’s Epistle to Titus and its connections to passages in Acts of the Apostles. I visit Fair Havens, Gortyna, and Heraklion and a few other places, all in search of Saint Titus and Paul.
This documentary marks my ten year quest to uncover St Paul’s associations with the Greek Islands and I hope it is a blessing to you.
My quest to find the lost Bible of George Marsh
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Martyr George Marsh, Theology, William Tyndale on May 3, 2024
In my previous article concerning my quest to uncover the home and Bible of George Marsh I mention his Bible in passing. I mention how I have examined a Marsh family Bible in Bolton Library and how an old newspaper article suggests his Bible was seen in Bolton in the 1850’s.
My research revealed the Marsh family Bible in Bolton cannot be the Bible that once belonged to George Marsh (1515-1555) since it outdates him by 11 years. A Bible that belonged to him would need to have been printed prior to his imprisonment in 1554 and his execution in 1555. In my opinion he would have likely used the Tyndale New Testament for his own personal reading and (as a matter of fact) a reformed Church of England cleric would have used the Great Bible for ministry at that time.
I have examined the Scripture quotes in the pastoral letters of George Marsh and in the book of Martyrs and they appear to be influenced by both Tyndale and Great Bible translations. This is an immensely important observation.
I believe any Tyndale New Testament that once belonged to George Marsh would have been burned with him in Boughton, Chester in 1555. In those days condemned reformers who used the Tyndale New Testament were paraded around a city with Tyndale’s New Testament hung about their necks. In the Book of Martyrs the last reference to George Marsh having his Bible was when he held it up before being burned. Foxe writes how Marsh was offered a pardon and he refused it on the condition that it would “pluck him from God”.
This New Testament I believe was burned with him.
However, the Bible I believe he used in his public ministry was not taken with him so it may have been left at the last place he ministered before his arrest. This would imply his Bible remained in and around the areas of Bolton and Bury in Lancashire.
The question is, has this Bible been found? Or is there something more?
As I have previously stated, my quest to uncover his Bible began after I made my documentary about him. I believe it is possible that the Bible people believed (in the 19th century) to have been his may have been identified? However I also believe it is possible the Marsh family Bible in Bolton library may also be the Bible people thought was his?
I am also aware that reformers and puritans once gathered in the area of Rivington Pike to read George Marsh’s letters. This could also be an important factor in the quest. But where all this will lead, only time will tell.
Either way, a Bible that once belonged to this great man, would be of enormous spiritual significance in our time.
Uncovering the location for the Manchester dwelling house of Thomas Charles
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Historical Manchester, Mary Jones, The Welsh Bible, Theology on April 27, 2024
Finding forgotten locations or places of historic significance is no easy task in our modern world.
Redevelopment, regeneration and expansion comes at a cost as archaeological remains lie beneath the surface.
One of those is a street in Manchester where the “dwelling house” of Thomas Charles once stood.
For those who may not know, Thomas Charles (1755-1814) was a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist from south Wales who spent a lot of his life living and ministering in Bala, North Wales. Thomas Charles was once a Church of England minister who was let down by that denomination and eventually found a home in Bala where he could minister among the Calvinistic Methodists who lived there.
Thomas Charles is the man famously responsible for giving a young Welsh girl called Mary Jones a Bible in 1800. Mary was a poor girl who worked and saved 6 years to purchase her beloved Welsh Bible and walked 26 miles or so, barefoot to buy it. Arriving at the home of Thomas Charles in Bala, Mary would eventually attain her Bible and two others as a gift. Thomas Charles was the man who gave her those Bibles.
Thomas Charles was very inspired by the story of Mary Jones and in 1804 he founded the British and Foreign Bible Society with William Wilberforce. His life and work is a testimony to the grace of God and known throughout the world.
Mr Charles had been gravely ill for many years and a prayer was offered up for him that he might live another 15 years. That prayer was answered. Charles died in 1814 and in his last Will and testament he writes that he is the owner of three properties, two in Bala and one on Hope Street, Manchester.
In his will Mr Charles wrote “I am the owner of the Inheritance of three messauges or dwelling houses with their appurtenances two of them situate in Bala aforesaid and the other in Hope Street in the town of Manchester in the County of Lancaster” (The World of Mary Jones. By Sara Eade. P. 33)
Back then the area of Oldham Street was very important to the Methodist movement and nearby is a place called Hope Street. This is actually the location of one of three houses owned by Thomas Charles.
Hope Street is also very near to where John Wesley preached.
I have located the site of that property and have examined a map dating to 1819. There is however no blue plaque to his memory or any acknowledgement of this great man’s connection to Manchester.
Yet there are plenty of other plaques scattered around the city.
In St Anne’s Square there is a blue plaque to Robert Owen (1771-1858) a Welsh entrepreneur and social reformer who lived in Manchester for 12 years.
On Bow Lane there is a blue plaque to Ernest Jones (1819-1868) who practiced a law chamber here between c 1863 – 1869.
There is a plaque to Elizabeth Raffald (1733-1781) outside Marks and Spencers who established a cookery school, shop and domestic service agency near the site.
Indeed, there are different colour plaques scattered all around the city and as a native I have visited these places for myself and once realised it isn’t difficult to find yourself lost in the history of this city.
Manchester is the birthplace of poet John Byrom, the author of the classic hymn “Christians Awake”. The city has a very significant Wesleyan history. Oldham Street has a blue plaque which tells of how Wesley opened a chapel here in 1781.
It is clearly a city packed with history and sure enough there had been a Welsh settlement in Manchester since the 16th century.
We have a great deal here, from a Roman settlement to the location of an ancient castle. A historic Cathedral. The oldest public library in the English speaking world. Significant Tudor and Christian history also plays an important role in Manchester’s history, including the life of Protestant martyr John Bradford (1510-1555).
Surely it is time to honour this great man and have a commemorative plaque put up on Hope Street.
My quest to uncover the home and Bible of Martyr George Marsh
Posted by simon peter sutherland in Documentaries, Martyr George Marsh on April 24, 2024
“the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.” (Psalm 112: 6. KJV)
In the 16th century a farmer from Deane (Bolton) by the name of George Marsh became a curate in the Church of England and was accused of heresy and condemned at the consistory court in Chester Cathedral. Marsh was burned at the stake in Chester on April 24, 1555.
Today marks the 469th anniversary of his death.
My documentary about George Marsh has been seen by many people and has helped raise awareness of his story, even Chester town Crier gave it the thumbs up.
It was a film that took me a while to make. After learning about Marsh at Smithills Hall I had been fascinated to discover how his story was in the Book of Martyrs. Yet when I looked for the narrative in printed copies, I found that many modern versions had edited him out. This inspired me to want to know more about him. So I looked to see if any documentaries had been made and there hadn’t.
In John Rylands Library and Chetham’s Library I read through original 16th century prints of the Book of Martyrs and sure enough, his story was there. After repeatedly reading it and anything I could find about him, it was as though the story came alive to me and I couldn’t shake it off.
Before long I knew a film needed to be made about George Marsh. At that time I wasn’t a documentary maker although I had had some ambitions to become one. After a number of failed attempts to get a Marsh documentary made I decided to film it myself.
After all documentaries and films won’t make themselves.
I continued researching and in June 2012 I was ready to began filming at Chetham’s Library.
I had no budget or agenda so this allowed for freedom. I repeatedly visited Deane Church, and Smithills Hall and the story utterly consumed me.
Despite many obstacles I completed the documentary in 2013. However the journey was not over. While filming I had learned about a possible location for where Marsh lived. Later I learned about a Marsh family Bible in Bolton Library rumoured to be his. So I viewed both the farm and the Bible at different times. Sadly my research revealed the Marsh family Bible could not have actually belonged to George Marsh since it dates to 1566. However after reading an old newspaper article I was set yet again on another journey, this time to find his Bible. I knew it was rumoured to have been seen in Deane in the 1850’s.
Suddenly I found myself on two separate journeys, the quest to find George Marsh’s Bible and the quest to find George Marsh’s farm.
As my research progressed another Bible turned up and a number of proposed locations for the Marsh farm. However I was unable to reach any conclusive proofs for either. So the location of George Marsh’s farm became an unsolved mystery. The Bible ongoing.
Last night however I felt compelled to revisit the area and it brought back a lot of memories. So I came up with the idea to write an appeal to see if anyone has any further insight into the location of the George Marsh farm?
Over the years I have been regularly contacted by Marsh descendants, many of whom find references to George Marsh in ancestral documents. So I appeal to anyone with insight to help locate the Marsh farm.
The area at Broadgate farm is the strongest suggestion in my opinion and where my instinct has led me. The site is situated up and beyond Deane church, overlooking a lake.
I may never know for sure since I haven’t yet found any absolute proof that George Marsh lived at Broadgate Farm but information may yet be out there. If anyone does have any insight, either through ancestral research or further source information please feel free to get in touch.
It is likely that George Marsh’s farm was either a medieval timber structure or a 16th century building.
Simon Peter Sutherland
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Simon Peter Sutherland 